2010-Suddenly Multi-celled Life Doesn't Need Oxygen Gas

In a turn-about of the routine demands by the staunch restrictive group on this blog, and others across the science community, the absolute denial demands are broken with a single discovery of these multi-cellular life types which can function in anoxic and oxygen deprived layers and zones from birth to death, never aspiring nor seeking the oxygen gas deemed a minimum by most of the resistant denying group.
We will see most all the other constraints fall by the way-side as well, giving a more broadened and hopeful presence in the balanced outward looking search for life beyond Earth.
Someday blogs and forums will be free of the suppression of the free flow of information, and the honest presentation of critical additions to the cataloging of possible life-like items in the other solar system bodies.
A great short report of the original research work, with a photo of the objects.
This one was in reproduction cycling.

Good find Dana. Perception always changes. Your ideas have always been quantum and sound. Enjoy this new strength.

Fred

Well, it was over statement, as the objectors here on this blog have tapered off with less harshness, but, as we should have known, this subject as in many, many, other science limitations of cataloging is only the limits of focused and resolved detailing, with few sharp boundaries present in the world.
Like organic systems, and 'life like' systems such as viral, fungi, nano-scale, exo- and astro-biology will be eventual full functional science domains with a complement of intriguing new items found giving further pressure against the limitations of our conceptual tolerance.
A long term search on Earth is showing hundreds of new items per year, in the most extreme and unusual environments, and even in our bodies and locales.
The greatest extension is to compare natural systems on a planet like Mars with dis-similar organic systems on Earth, and find the degree of organic life process activity that mirrors or resembles not organic appearance records on that planet. We haven't even viewed the size scale necessary for microbe presence and cellular functionality, and residual organic content. We did also deny the obvious all throughout the MER program results with a tirade of attempts to prevent and close off debate and investigation of the detailing. As the denial has softened over time, six years passing, we might give the Earth finds a place in the perceived limits of our validation of the closed loop of denial, and open the doors for accurate and detailed study of the real science within the MER MI imaging, which is still available on the current gallery indexes.
We may loose the full record system someday as there is not a long term commitment to the 'Open Access' index of the MER records over time. Any advocates of this inexpensive full pixel by pixel record of all images returned should make their demands for a permanent gallery of these images and instrument results be known to the U.S. current administration, and congressmen.
The least expensive and safest investment in science is the longest playing accurate record of the results of each mission, protected in the accuracy of the image stored within each pixel of each image, as there is a real image within each pixel now on record.
Do not be fooled by claims that the images are the same after conversion to another file type, nor that the pixels are 'square blocks of grey shading' as many have proclaimed on this blog and other forum/blogs. The fact is that full image can be produced from a 10 pixel square source from these small JPG's we are forced to use as a catalog on the gallery. A TIF equivalent system or better would have given a better source of gallery images. There is no excuse for the use of JPG's in the missions of the future, except as a selection preference at reduced quality of image content.

We need accurate preservation of the details in each pixel, to give the search for astro-biology and all other disciplines a fair full use of the images now on record.
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http://news.cnet.com/8618-19514_3-20002088.html?communityId=2124&targetCommunityId=2124&blogId=239&messageId=9260401&tag=mncol
A plea for long term preservation of the current mission results.
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Please give some 'clamor' and effort to aiding in making these galleries a permanent record of the full science content for the 'turn-of-the-century' missions which define our entry into the Internet and WEB methods of distributed science for common persons, as well as the professionals that already have access to the best records and files.
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-19514_3-20002088-239.html?tag=mncol
Topic of my comment link, above, on this entry. My hyperlink access is not present on the Chrome browser today for active linking. (Future NASA mission funding, planning.)

The newer funding switches or extensions are reported for NASA missions through Obama administration adjustments, and the commitments seem without dates and determinism as yet, but we may see a Open Access and permanent records development from the looseness of the funding options in the works, which would bring the safest and most economical use of the current and past missions to bear against the opposition 'Earth only' and the science resistant groups who lack faith in future programs.
All persons gain from Open Access, full detailed records availability(Sunshine and FOI program landmarks), and the full range of science reportage is advanced by the safe and economical use of these current and future research results. In many science disciplines the presence of full disclosure is a faith building, forward looking, progression, giving the better investment as individuals and as groups, and regions of the world.

Good to hear from you, Fred. Looking to your future work.

Dana>>>

Thank you for the read. But I have my doubts. After all the find was on Earth...good Old Mother Earth...Earth that has had its history in dramatic fashions discovered with dated extreme and various environments like no place else. It just plainly could not occur anyplace else without O2...just like you and me and Fred could never be duplicated. That's the way I am thinking.

yt
dx

If i remember right, life on Earth started without O2 - actualy all the O2 content of our athmosphere is the product of life...

I am trying that 'permalink' address, at # 2(first link) above, one additional time, as the newer Chrome browser apparently does the active link without the scripting required, as an 'auto' function, but the comment link wasn't functional. Mt comment was at the bottom of the first page, comment #28, on April 10, 2010, at 12:01 PM, and while not important to this topic directly, might be a call for a Internet science library system of worldwide access for basic science education. As many systems can provide that content, and private systems are of greater economy and efficiency possibly, the encyclopedic registry of science content should be a central government concern, and permanence of the records should be a pixel by pixel matter of evaluation and preservation intent.
We have lost some of the historical records of NASA missions in the past by a lack of commitment to permanence and accuracy.
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http://news.cnet.com/8618-19514_3-20002088.html?communityId=2124&targetCommunityId=2124&blogId=239&messageId=9260401&tag=mncol;tback
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The intrigue of this article about a current find, is in the mystery of the evolution, or altered capacity, and the timing of the first presence of this unusual life type object.
These cute little items in the open oceans, seas, and perhaps fresh water or brine lake residuals of the former oceans and seas, even possibly being a traveler in the water table systems somewhere, and have distribution around the world.
The current find is unique as it is the first specialized non-O2 metabolizing or transpiring version of what is a 'mitochondria' based energy system common process life type, IE., it is a 'no mitochondria' type, and has side-stepped the common current Earth prevalence of mitochondria energy system mainstay of our current life types. As a multi-celled life form, it has accomplished what was known to be possible for many single-celled life types, in processing other energy chemistries as a substitute for, or possibly, a 'reversion' back to a former energy system as used by some single celled life types over geological time.
Regardless as to whether there was even a Oxygen presence, (as some research shows there was over time, and other research denies the presence of 'free' oxygen gases and oxygenated waters in the Archaean past), we can assume the lack of oxygen use currently requires a alternative to the routine expectations of a common mitochondria energy system.
The lack of final research results as to whether this is a recent development, or reversible capability, we can see that the item is fully healthy, lives life cycles in the anaerobiosis zone exclusively, and is well adapted to the lack of free oxygen as a standard currently as a population. Hints were of at least fifty thousand years, to as many as 5.5 million years for the 'wet' filled Mediterranean, and we may be viewing items longer lived, from former location specific 'Dead Sea' equivalent lakes, or a groundwater cave system variety of some former population.
I shows that as an environment opens or has existed as is, life inhabits the domain, with some adaptations and conversions, and as we are without a non-liquid water domain to test this cycling, we cannot as yet preclude the possible extension to environments where life may have had a path to a Mars like climate, or similar.
Do I see the mainstay of life as a liquid water repopulating source?, sure the easy presence of ubiquitous water in liquid form is our only catalog to read and write about currently. We must find a variety of a non-water dependent life type which utilizes ices, chemistry, and radiative molecular interactive combinations to find a Mars version of some life type items.
The active adaptation processes by life may be very much a fundamental element of non-life as well, giving fairly complex resemblance in non-organic materials of crystallinity structures or superstructures, which give many of the qualifying aspects of a 'life' type item, especially as we view them by satellite or a MER MI equivalent imaging technique.
Many chemistries melt ice at Mars temperatures, and can give through radiation and chemistry the content of both hydrogen and oxygen as fuel source. A method of allowing radiative pass-through and use might give a basis for tubular based life at various Mars subsurface or surface exposure locations. We use transparent eye keratin proteins similarly in the rebuilding of our irradiated pupils, which desiccate and are destroyed by the direct sunlight, finding a medium of survivable temporality in wildly swinging climates and 'wetness'. The exsiccation of minerals and 'wetting' of ices is possible on Mars. Is it sufficient to allow a life type process of repetitious and environment altering activity for a population of 'something'? A possibility even in difficult terms perhaps.
What we have been measuring on Mars is hydrogen levels at the Northern Lowlands, and estimating the presence of H2O or ices.
Hydrogen Sulphide is a barrier and a source of defining domain boundary for these creatures on Earth.
The addition of water ice and possible hydrated Magnesium Sulphate was interesting on Mars.
The Earth ocean 'ice-worms' which require methane release from subfreezing temperature ice to survive, and which die if separated from the clathrate ices, use ice blocks which look like structures seen in MER photos, produce attachment pockets which resemble the voids in same Mars sediment 'rocks'.
What would a closer look provide?

I hope to read more about these items, as they may be a collection of types soon, and our openness to non-oxygen and non-liquid ice based life types may provide a new sector for science and astrobiology.
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http://extremophiles2010.itqb.unl.pt/?gclid=CPyy8pqc_aACFRTyDAodXmequg
Extremophiles conference in the Azores, in 2010, September.
Anyone attending, or aspiring to be there?

http://extremophiles2010.itqb.unl.pt/programme/extremophiles-poster/15-latest/86-extremophiles-poster
A poster of the proceedings planned schedule, with, ha,ha, a climate weather readout section for the gentle bound humans to fret over. The report shows variable and 'wet'.

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The one final objection to life on Mars would be atmospheric pressure, as the oxygen requirement is without merit, most conditions are marginal but potentially available, and the matter of water ice is discounted as an objection in the presence of proven ices at the poles and near polar regions, and these general links to a possible source of water liquid and nucleation to liquid formation in tubules is shown by this casual insect or arthropod technique of water dew collection.
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http://www.nature.com/nchina/2010/100224/full/nchina.2010.23.html
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http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7281/full/nature08729.html
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The use of fine fibrils to collect water in any form is more effective if the tubular structure has a throughput of gas, as an adjunct to 'soil breathing' of particulate assembly dunes, caverns or any similar subsurface transfers to the chambering of daily and seasonal pressure fluctuations, temperature variations, chemical augmented sublimation of ices, or electromagnetic sweeping daily charged winds. The control of an environment is slight in the case of spiders and silk webs. The automated construction of tubules on Mars with internal minor component active structures would be a rather substantial use of some resource chemistry to provide a vast volume of a controlled chamber for liquid water confinement, with probably only a minor volume of active materials, presumed to be a large part organic.
The highly ordered 'stems' on Mars objects in relationship to some of the spheroids gives a nearly certain non-mineral cause to the ordering, if the individual instances I observed are common at small scale. Much evidence may be not preserved, not observed, or not applicable to all types of spheroids on Mars. As I have mentioned in the past, varieties and conditions of spheroidalism make the spheroids a collection of various causes and types on Mars just as we see on Earth. Not all spheroids on Earth are biological in origin, and most are not organic and do not suggest life on Earth.
The original trench images display the presence of tubular attached stem bases for some spheroids, especially those buried in soil over time, broken from the tubes by trenching rover movement. This is recorded on the MER gallery website.
Even the dune tubules or spheroidal objects appear to be related to fine interior content items.
My current topic images of the near polar dune slope tubules or spheroids with fine cores showing differentiated materials.
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http://www.marsroverblog.com/discuss-esp_016087_2695_linear_growths_with_bright_cores.html
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Other HiRISE imaging shows large rods sheathed, and oriented 'stem' shapes with one end elevated from the ground surfaces around the polar ice cap areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaea

Archaea is considered to be one of the more likely possibilities of life existing beneath the Martian surface. Finding the source of the Methane on Mars will be a big factor as this could be a "Black Smoker" or other "Mini Techtonics" occuring near the core where Archaea could thrive.

Either way as time goes by we are finding here on Earth many weird and wonderful life forms existing where previously it was thought impossible for life to survive.

Nature replicates itself across our Galaxy and the diversity of conditions here on Earth will be found elsewhere, already we have seen great potential for life on Titan, Europe and perhaps Enceladus.

It's not if we find life elsewhere but when.

The article below has some very thoughtful and fresh ideas about life in the universe. Conclusions appear to be along the general lines of dx's posts. Indeed, the first post by Dana on the new microbes that have no need for oxygen, tangentially bears on the topics addressed in the article and can be argued as providing some support for both sides of the question; Is there likely to be life as we know it outside of Earth and perhaps this solar system?

I find the arguments to be very good but I still holdfast to the view that the sheer quantum of universes, inter alia, suggests to me that there must be life elsewhere in the solar system, even if perhaps very different from our life on Earth. I also think that we should not discount the possibility of the involvement of a transcendent creator being or beings ("God") at some level in the process of creating or imagining life in a dimension far removed from ours.

Article here


Any comments Dana; dx

Winston

Very good Winston. The mind of God creates all life. The Big Bang was nothing more than a thought in the mind of God. At that time all of the ingredients for what would be were made. All the Galaxies contain all possible combinations and Solar Systems contain a possible Idea for life.

The solar System is an Idea of the Creator and the Universe its self is the Mind of God.

Fred


Nice find Winston!

That article in your reply 9 pretty much sums it up; we just don't know. And won't know unless we keep looking and speculating beyond what we consider to be the norm.

This probably deserves the start of a New Topic. We need people to think "outside the box" as to what life might be beyond our planet. That's why we need folks like you, Dana and several others to second guess the things (rocks) we observe in Mars rover images.

Bob

Interesting opinion. I did read our signals radiated into space would be receivable only 4 light years out by our current technology. That ain't far my friends. Besides, consider there are about 1.5 million species of life on this planet. We are the ONLY species capable of sending ANYTHING. Other planets may also be teeming with life. If they are akin to giraffes or worms, I don't think we'll be hearing from ANY of them.

LWS et al...>>>

As our time passes better science articles of thought-producers like Davies have changed our outlook and techniques of finding aliens. I used to be in love with the subject of alien folks somewhere in the universe when I was a young man exploring the world and myself too, only to discover changing thoughts over time as education and maturity set in.

RJS>>>I did set up a little scenario about alien life on this Blog in the 'Space Exploration ' section entitled, KOA Kampgrounds for alients started by glennfish. http://www.marsroverblog.com/discuss-127549-koa-kampgrounds-for-alients.html
Perhaps that should be reset as a NEW thread in that Section entitled 'Thoughts on Alien Life'

My last post in that thread presented a question that has not been answered by anyone here on the Blog but perhaps with reading the article in LWS reply 9 some of you can now speculate about the 2 differences on the 2 planets. I have left my hypotheses out for I did not want to 'lead' any answers from speculators.

Have fun in providing your own notions or ideas. It could take several thoughtful days to analyze the 2 planet scenario before you come up with something that may make sense to further our own contemplation of life in the universe.

[please ladies and gentlemen>>>keep any and all cult matters out]

Btw>>> since inter-galactic travel is absolutely beyond our present imagination [well...you know what I mean] please keep within the Milky Way galaxy all pertinent projections.

...and another BTW>>>presently there have been around 400 exo-planets found...not even close to being a needle in the haystack.

yt
dx

My current topics are about seasonal dark streaking across Mars, which is most prolific at the gullies and polar areas, and not well suited to the discussion of alien life types and unusual non-oxygen active formations, so I'll turn to your more appropriate topic and my other topics of April 2010, to continue the discussion with you, therefore.
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x=34210 , y=23187 , size= 4:1 & 6:1

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At the size range of 4 to 1, and 6 to 1, respectively, even with some alterations to dampen the pixelation effects, there isn't much statistical chance that life on Mars can be viewed, from these HiRISE source images, such as ESP_016111_2600, and it will likely require the MSL rover and additional landings to find evidence of life-like ordering of formations in seasonal display of active terrain condition.
I just can't get closer to Mars than the 6 to 1 size in the second image above, so we need an additional MRO/HiRISE satellite to look at even greater resolution to find the proof of life on other bodies in our solar system.
Still, the topic of unexpected life types on Earth is a heartening find, with the breaking of expected limits on the principals of life as a organizing influence in water, oxygen, proteins, and tissue sacks with metabolizing actions.
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Gully formation at the margins of dunes heated by the springtime sunlight, is not likely to produce life on Mars, only ices erupting like fountains of concentrated CO2 gas and water frost/vapor. The observed exfoliation and outgassing should be expected as simple phase conversion of landscape frost and 'slab' ice, not a highly ordered event process.
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x=30740 , y=29540 , size= 4 to 1 at 25cm/pixel

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Any search for life on other planetary bodies will likely be a very long road, in a historical program that may require hundreds of spacecraft and rover/landers.
We will continue to look for the elusive active ordering of the environment in each source image from Mars, and someday we may find the object of our ambitions.
To expect to find the same actions of chemistry and mineralogy/geology on other bodies which we observe here on Earth surely must be a statistical near impossibility.
The 'special' placement of the Earth in a triple point zone of liquid water prevalence has been a cornerstone of our understanding about what we shall be looking for.
We should be persistent in the attempt to understand our 'unique' placement in the galaxy, and in a star system.

In our current viewing of MRO/HiRISE items, we would be lucky to see objects the size of elephants to dinosaurs in any detail. We have all been told many times that it cannot occur on Mars.

This is a positive sign of civilization.http://images3.webpark.ru/uploads54/100414/Shanghai_01.jpg

Positive signs of intelligence. http://www.webpark.ru/comment/61766

Don't be too lazy to cut and paste, these essays answer MANY questions.

John

Those images in your reply #16 are absolutely amazing but I'm not sure of the connection with intelligence in some.

Great images!
Winston