New Moon mission canceled

Manned mission to Mars as well?

I suppose this isn’t surprising. But very disappointing non the less. Who do we blame?
The Banks? Wall street? Obama?

“Constellation is dead,” the source told AFP on condition of anonymity, referring to a program that envisioned returning to the moon by 2020 and using Earth’s nearest neighbor as a base for manned expeditions to Mars…
Reports added that the US space agency will work on finding a commercial solution to ferrying US astronauts to the International Space Station after the scheduled end of NASA’s shuttle program in September 2010.
Astronauts will be able to hitch rides aboard Russian Soyuz spacecraft, but the United States will need a commercial alternative if Congress approves White House plans to scrap development of a successor to the shuttle program.
FMR

In a personal comment, we carry the frenzied madness of waste to such extremes that many U.S. faddisms could fund this program of science investment if we lived with greater self restraint? Reducing that bloated personal investment makes many think the change toward science investiture is 'painful' or 'controlling'. Is science a waste, or is the glitter and repetitious personal daily routine the source of social waste?
Which caused the current crisis headlines, bad science, or a concentration on personal investitures in consumption and multiplication of bad personal decisions and direction as a group of individuals spending into a madness state?
Investing in personal science routines, and not in aimless patterns is good for us, and the society which receives the science product.
Are the funded space science government programs as bloated as our personal lives, with aimlessness, misdirection, and wasteful goals?
Can private space flight missions result in any public information products, as we have in the galleries of HiRISE, MER, PDS, ESO, and many, many, others publicly accessible online currently?
Are we preparing for the item by item purchase of science from private collections as a further development?
Would the private contracting of missions for profit, bring a cheaper price tag or similar safety precautions?
Will a new direction or directive emerge from the hiatus of former planning?

I imagine I reached thoughtfully about 3 to 6 percent of the readers, and not many more. The society has a character of madness which is built into the U.S. way of life, it's economics, and our personal daily routines.

Can direction by individuals have any byproduct favorable to basic science goals and information repositories as we have assembled during the past ~ 40 years of public governmental funding of basic science research?

Step forward - SpaceX.

This could still prove a boon, because it is likely to fill SpaceX's coffers and there is no doubt SpaceX's founder, Elon Musk, wants to get to Mars as soon as possible.

The news from the source has been quiet. Rumors are abounding, some probably realistic, and Obama has the microphone in hand within congressional agreement potential.

I am also pleased to see private interests willing to provide some of the former program missions across the space industry total. Good efforts by several private projects is underway in aspects, for small payloads, and requiring support and testing in use.

This link and quote is the White House executive explanation of what I see as the real concern in the short term. See the second paragraph for the quotation source.

"STS-129 is using the shuttle’s unmatched lofting muscle to deliver 27,250 pounds of spare parts to help keep the ISS running for years to come." Exectutive blog general running link.

As yet, no matching fulfillment from private vehicles. How long will industry require to plan for larger payloads? Safety factor offered in the bargain? Will industry offer the same service as the Russian ferrying process?

folks>>>

This is all just 'nuts' to cancel the Moon missions and YES FMR the Mars manned flight too, along with retiring space shuttles. What is happening not IN but TO 'America the great'.

In my mind more and bigger shuttles must be built for they can be designed to travel to the Moon to Mars and the most important piece of space hardware...the ISS.

America has got to stop pussy-footing around and start building these new bigger safer shuttles for the next 50 years use or so until the private sector gets a foothold in space. Its way too early for the NASA cut-off coming up to great the science community.

I am tired talking and thinking about it all, no more guts anymore, no more guts...[walks away shaking his head while glimpsing at the setting Sun]

yt
dx

I wonder where we would be as a people without space exploration to drive mans inventions. If we were to suddenly look at our condition with the hypothetical view.” what if" We can all think of many advances Space travel has given us in the fields of electronics and medicine and physical sciences to mention a few.
It’s a shame we can’t seem to get over our petty differences, work together to explore this wonderful universe together.
Never to be.....?
It will be a strange shift to privatize space travel and will take some getting used to but who knows , it may work much better than what we have now after all, Government usually doesn’t do well with large projects (until now Nasa has been the exception)

FMR

Oh sorry DX
To answer your question "What is happening not IN but TO 'America the great'"
America is in the middle of a temporary Progressive detour for now. It seems we the people need to remind ourselves of just how poorly a country can be run and so we hit ourselves in our collective head and take Liberal Progressives out for a temporary test-drive. Just until we all remember that they want to take away all of our freedom and plunge our country into the permanent Chaos then we kick them out (hopefully in 2012)
Stand by
We’ll be back
FMR

Just a quick comment in poli-ticks before some careful science reminiscences as a near fossil here, I am surprised that FMR takes the liberal horse for a ride when the Supreme Court has fried our golden egg in a simple formerly criminal advocating of wrong-natured dominion of the poli-ticks domain with a freeing of the most wealthy from constraints of what should be a

'one man, one dollar, one vote' ,

law process as was decided by millions over a century of clear thinking by the population.

The people will now carry the poli-ticks around on their torsos as an injury without a medical/law protection any further.
Can we tolerate this very common expression of the illegal dominion of the many by the few?
Is this type of 'protected monarchical/monologuing' behavior not the motivating basis for the formation of our nation in the first restructuring of the colony-states as a collective? Did I forget to condition my observation with the acknowledgement that that point of history turned on the allowance for only the property owners, only the men, and only the wealthy able to express themselves as loud and micro-manging the many disenfranchised from birth to death?
After careful rebuilding of our odd first nation;
We the lower classes seem to be watching the from the curb a series fine and shiny limousines carrying the real 'movers' of dominion as they tie knots in the legal processes, and reduce our equality of a hand built
'one man, one dollar, one vote'
attempted national construction, to a humorous stature as a land of illusion and relative return to ownership of the votes of the many tens of millions to the hands of a few millions(many truthfully not human, and therefore not able to sustain the qualities of citizenship).
Can I be blinded by the greed of a few millions? Shall we discuss the making of a new nation?
The S.C. decision should have been accompanied by a legally required estimation of the altered voting patterns it generated. That should have been a requirement minimum admission by the court and those involved in the calculated, conscripted, decision.

In regard to science, I have in my distant memory, a day when I visited a company owned by someone I had met for the first time. I was just in grade school, and in a short tour of the manufacturer, I received a few samples of the finest satellite bulbs used in early orbiters of the new dawn of space exploration. While not a rare item socially really, for me it was the finest technology items I had ever possessed. They were an intrigue with an occasional battery for years as I became understanding the rare place the other bulbs had been placed, in the early years.
Now I have purchased LED flashlights, LED strobe-like flashers, and laser pointers more powerful than we may have ever possessed without the benefit of U.S. funding of basic and applied space and science research.
Even the work of universities and private medicine would not be the same story without basic space sciences research and development.
Energy research is one of the cornerstones of problem solving in the space sciences and will be generalized over time.

Hopefully more careful planning can reduce the amount of information and management secrecy that dominates our routines these days. Public funding has given most an equal share of much of the newer space returns, and is a good method of augmenting an education for all persons.
Returning to the Moon is another opportunity for yet another public repository of common open science availability.

What's up for later today?

Any attempt to set up Moon bases and a manned mission to Mars will need to be a joint international venture with some private investment sprinkled in.

The cold war is over and increasingly governments are having to work together on matters such as the recession and global warming so why not space exporation.

China have the money but not the know how so no doubt they might turn to Russia for help in certain areas, I think they would take more risks and would love to be the first on humans on Mars and probably will be.

Perhaps NASA could go on a sales drive to get private investment, just tell them there are diamonds the size of footballs in the Caldera of Olympus Mons.

Sounds like an idea with a variety of potential. Makes me wonder how many extra vehicles will be in tow for safety use.

FMR>>>thanks for your 6, I have to read more American news.

Kevin>>>your comment in 8 has perhaps hit the nerve of America.[The cold war is over and increasingly governments are having to work together on matters such as the recession and global warming...]...well this is it...these are simple minded social issues and there is not much induced sustainability to keep true science alive and progressing. Hey its a fact: small things amuse small minds! Trouble is the 2 things are invented in man's mind and will be big and bigger until education comes to the front of thick Neanderthal skulls.

Another reason is that socialism kills our heroes and heroines...they are washed away publicly [and sorely] with brutal dictates like lets 'feed the poor'. He cheated he lied lets send him to jail. Yeah, if only those loud mouths had worked on a farm to produce food or studied with diligence or even grown a bean plant in school, they would keep their mouths shut, for they would then be educated!!!

What we really need are ALIENS from another world to fight and conquer. You know, something we can get our inventive teeth into and take a large bite out of the unknown world of science to advance the world troops. This 1 big thing would get the whole world involved for our lives would be at stake and perish as food for the ALIENS on their world!!!

Well, you get the picture I'm building. I hate lazy ass socialists who want the government to do everything for them. Canada has turned into this strange land of non-productive peasants with the big hand commanding your very democratic actions. There is no Democracy here not when everyone else including the government wants a piece of YOUR pie you created! Even our Art and Architecture stink from a government culture...what in Hell is that about and most importantly...WHY are they involved? Yes, I have tried to correspond with them, but they are slipperier than any snake on Earth.

yt
dx

Stunted adolescence in the socializing realm? Take a longer breath and command the ship. Aliens are your friend-give them a hug, let the world of strangeness exist. Finding a common process is the nature of government, and we will be stressed to greater restraints as we are larger in number and poorer in resources. Even as a U.S. citizen I can see to predict the 'old money' problems, seeing the fluorescence of our social economy, and the sinking ship of shared resources applied as a medicine, not a weapon.
We need to reduce the excuses for noise, and find science a goal of servility, not an act of individual combativeness.

The Moon missions and the extension of human science to other worlds would be a large stress in the scale of endeavors, becoming greater if our industries are failing due to a lack of basic fuels and chemistry over time.

We should engage the various nations of 'aliens' to give a well running ship a mission worthy of the investment. That includes preserving the individual value of each person currently living. Give each a place to function and resolve their history in production extensions.
Give an alien a hug, dx.
Hopefully they are warmer and healthier than trees.

What to do, the budget problems caused by the collapse of the banks and the subsequent bail out from governments has caused this. Even better is they are at it again, surely they ought to pay the tax payer back before putting their snouts in the trough again.

War is not cheap either and we have plenty of that at the moment. If Aliens came along to attack Earth they would clearly be more advanced to get here in the first place so I doubt we would stand much of a chance.

An approaching Asteroid that would impact Earth would focus the mind for sure bringing at least the most advanced nations together to find a way of preventing the end of Mankind. I could still see certain places on the Planet who would say it is an act of God and it should be or say it is not true and it is being made up.

Perhaps future generations will look back at this era and see just how wrong we got it and the opportunities that were squandered because of greed and selfishness.

Without the private sector getting involved we are going nowhere and we need to treat space exploration not as a national thing but an Earthling thing, it should be a place of sanctuary.

The Open science policy is allowed currently to help in the process of giving the least expensive transfer of resources so as to cheapen the impulses for combative hurried solutions. We should provide with all international gestures, and Openness policy initiatives, an assessment of the results of our actions, in industry, and in war expressions. Unfortunately the myriad of intermediate content items between groups usually is a mix of the two concepts, so any science programs which build favorable mutual industrial tandem alignments of technical content gives a basis for recognition of the less destructive aspects of planned behavior as even larger groups.
We could take note of the fact that smaller groups survive as less defensible entities,usually without vast $ portions extended to war-like efforts, and notice the individuals are the measure of health in each small society, as opposed to the conspiracies to be large and in charge. The U.S. and other economic tabled economies will find it difficult to match other lesser economies, and avoidance of war-like destructive investment should be a popular topic. As we cannot spend the recent fifty years of war monies a second time, and as the monies are expired, we are poorer, not wealthier as a large group here. A few million did become wealthier, here and elsewhere, and the result could be seen as dozens of lost missions, science programs in the energy realm, or space sciences, or medicine, or even home construction for all persons.
The noise we generate against careful investments gives an Open information world a history of bad decision-making, as groups and as individuals.
It may be that the current planned missions to the Moon and Mars are not the best possible use of resources. As science should be investing in Open results of the current space missions, and is only allowing a percentage of the information to be released at no significant cost, the question is whether the results of future missions will be also restricted and therefore an investiture for a few only, with a large cost per item for information resulting from the programs.
What might be the valuable by-product in information of the private missions? Will large scale missions be a public funding dip into a one way path of monies, or will the Openness stature of free public galleries and science publications be maintained?
It was the money sources that caused the avalanche breakage of the process, but it was designed to give the public in the U.S. a view from a differing angle than the routine avoidance and escapism. Banks were wrong, as were individuals. The results would be catastrophic in a space mission designed to follow our economies.
Is the reliance upon the economic entities a safe method of planning our space missions therefore? Can private space flight be the economic success and safe source of public benefit we have now?
One of the dangerous madness aspect of U.S. economics is a built-in expectation of partial failure, and an ~50%turnover in the first 1 to 2 years of employment. We are in the U.S. designed to waste the social factor, to avoidance the final price of business. One of hundreds of areas of bad decision making built into a self-failing economy which 'wags the dogs tail'.
Unfortunately, the dog is not industry, but the population.
The new Court decision has changed that fact, and moved the industry into the population as a act of further madness and corrupting of the better nation we have tried to build. Now, we must submit to the madness of 'a higher price, a better product'. That could corrupt the society further as it has corrupted the various industries.
I see no new stories of economics or society, only a new set of technological devices used by them.
I believe the missions are not necessarily at fault, but we will hear from the U.S. representative on that today and shortly.

Dana
In answer to your Reply 7
That’s what you get when Liberals appoint Supreme Court justices!
I think all campaign donations should be limited to Us citizens and companies only and should be severely limited in fact balanced exactly between the candidates! That way if one gets a dollar so does the other. The US is screwed for the time being. Every misspent dollar puts us one dollar farther away from discovery.

I agree with dx about the alien attack thing. Humans are collectively "masturbating" around artificial disasters like global warming and we have such potential for invention and discovery. Whooping the tar out of some ugly evil alien insect like enemy would unite the "Clans" and we would gain some self confidence again
(all tongue in cheek) :lol:
FMR

Here is a good article with some very imformative links, interesting to see some of the projects that are out there. I suppose we should not be too down as ESA has a heavy lifting vehicle, Russia has medium and smaller sized craft and NASA has a lot of experience and R&D under its belt.

Worth a read especially the links.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/jonathanamos/2010/02/the-vision-thing-and-nasas-new.shtml

sorry about the double post

More comments:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/seealso/2010/02/daily_view_obama_cancels_moon.html

FMR, those were the conservative justices, throwing revised and repeated laws out the window, opening the country to racketeering, corruption, and back-room deal making that will run into the tens of billions of additional dollars per year shortly if limits are not re-instituted by our other two branches of this government(most of whom stand to gain from the change).
As though it were not a bad scene from a bad movie already(Title: The WIGgles and the WAGgles.)
It is a national disgrace or twisted joke around the world, that money is the writing pen of new law or the lack thereof, and the elections are as much back-room as public.
If that money were required to be placed into the general funds of government operations rather than a corrupting attempt at changing election results, it would dry up nearly, but would be constructively spent when issued.
Bad noise generation by a opposition political party trying to tie up a sitting presidential executive carry through. Clear espionage control of the three branches of government by back-room collusion of combined branch representatives of multiple branches.
Two years now of renewed noise at grid-locked ineffective cycling of what may as well be an exercise treadmill as a government. Can we ride the treadmill forever, government turning the crank pedal, and citizens paying the bill? There is no money in the coffers of the freed business 'persons' which did not come from either U.S. consumers, or foreign consumer/citizens.
that includes B to B, and B to Gov.
A short take on the Supreme Court 'racketeering of racketeering' which now has place d U.S. in the drivers seat of 'organized crime as a functioning government'.
The Dog is elected, and the Tail aspires to lead the chase for new bones.
Who and where do we sit, in the spectator/citizen/voter audience? Are we doomed to watch this drama rerun forever-more?
Is 'Grid-Lock' the new official method of governing, to the suppression of all other descriptive terms, such as 'electoral', and 'representative'?
I'll be quiet now, and take my seat.
BAD Dog. Very BAD Tail!!
-----------

A link to Kevin's detailed budget link in the secondary links.
PDF


A White House short release of an explanation, with some figures
.

In all, difficult to issue complaints, as the design was for the next administration to revise the schedule and the commitments which are now set back in timing for the Moon mission particulars if privatization cannot make up the lost design phase years.

Good move for unmanned exploration. We can't even get a space toilet to work. We aren't ready for Mars. We've been to the moon. Thr Russians charge 50 million a seat. A real bargain compared to the shuttle. Orbit has ALWAYS been a state funded endeavor. If it was cheap and simple, Delta airlines would be in it.